PUT IT IN THE MIX
Harmen Liemburg's printed matter

Interview by Willem Henri Lucas in Beautiful/Decay magazine issue M/2005

In May 2004 Dutch graphic designer and printmaker Harmen Liemburg was invited to do a workshop at CalArts. Visiting him there and seeing the work he did with students made me wonder if the CalArts surroundings felt much more like a natural habitat to him and his work compared to the wet, cold flatness of The Netherlands. The illustrative approach in his work seems odd in an environment that mostly produces clean, simple and very straightforward design, his work is distinctive for its shameless display of obsession with form (rather then the ‘naked’ concept), and the joy and fun seeping through structured layers of ink. Heavily inspired by the vernacular (Liemburg re-uses shapes and forms found on old candy wrappers and other packaging), Japanese illustrations, Seventies patterns, the look of early computer games and an excessive interest in printed matter (use of silk screen technique), his is work rich, filled with ‘old fashioned’ craftsmanship that mixes time and history.

Since Amsterdam is small and its design community very dense, we would meet frequently at openings, receptions and parties. However, Liemburg, reminded me that we share a much older history. Apparently, Liemburg was a first year student at the Academy in Utrecht where I was teaching. During that year 4 lecturers, including me, got fired. This caused an organized student protest... Macs were burning... students transferred ‘en masse’ to other art academies... and to make a long story short... after a summer of negotiations and apologies back and forth, I got re-hired. But by then Harmen Liemburg had switched to the prestigious Rietveld Academy, a crucial and very important decision, that must have influenced his career. We met again when I was invited to critique his graduation show, and since then I have been a follower of his career and collector of his work.

He teamed up with fellow student Richard Niessen and together, they formed the Golden Masters, producing a body of work in four years (amongst of which is a series of stamps for the Dutch post and telecom company) that kick-started and landmarked both of their (now) solo-careers.

At the moment Liemburg collaborates with fashion designer Alexander van Slobbe creating textile prints for van Slobbe’s Orson and Bodil collection, and with artist Jennifer Tee creating installation works and designing most of her publicity material. The newly build Federal Tax building in Apeldoorn (Nl.) will have huge silk screened windows with Liemburg’s patterns silkscreend onto them. Based on biological and technological structures, (wood cells and computer print plates) his patterns, besides their decorative function, will help to keep the sunlight out. Last summer he initiated a project at the International Poster and Graphic Arts Festival of Chaumont, (France) ‘re-mixing’ the historical poster collection of Gustave Dutailly by using selected parts of the posters and compiling them with additional graphics. Spring 2006 Liemburg will be joining the North Eastern University in Boston as an artist in residence.

With Harmen being in Amsterdam and me here in L.A. this following conversation is done over the computer ‘instant messaging’ in Skype.

Venice Beach 8.00 am
[ Hey Harmen, are you there? ]

Amsterdam 5.00 pm
It is 5 o’clock, yes I am. Everything okay?

[ You are in the mids of things, I believe... ]

Yeah, I just came out of a meeting with Corry (Dutch photographer Coriette Schoenaerts) about photography for a new publication on networks in the cultural world: Amsterdam Index.

[ So when exactly did we meet for the first time, do you remember? ]

It was 12 years ago in your studio in Amsterdam. You were the subject of a student protest at the Utrecht School of the Arts, I was one of the students involved. I felt an immediate connection with your work that was in your studio, all the cowboy-stuff (h.l. refers to my installations ‘My life as a Cowboy’)

[ You must have been behind someone’s back, because I don’t remember you being there at all. ]

Well, I wasn’t the leader of the pack and as always did the work behind the scenes, besides I wasn’t as assertive as I am now... ha ha ha.

[ We have a lot in common. First of all our profession, our love for printed matter, our initials and also our birthday, what else...? ]

Were both hopeless romantics, kind, social and we share the feeling for nostalgia, but not in a whiny kind of way.

[ Yeah, yeah, but especially the recognition in each others work, right? ]

I really liked the illustrations you were doing at the time for Dutch newspaper Trouw, and as a starting designer I was very impressed with your magazine FLUX, the fact that you can start your own magazine with a couple of friends and very little money, was an eye-opener...

[ Talking about illustrations, on your web site you don’t call yourself ‘illustrator’ but printmaker. It seems deliberate]

I am still very uncomfortable with the title ‘illustrator’ it feels limited, maybe ‘imagemaker’ might be good, but then that sounds so pretentious. Even though my works heavily rely on the image, I am not an illustrator ‘per se’. My works are constructions, as well in 2d: compositional, as in 3d: anticipating on the (im)possibilities of printed matter.

[ Printmaker seems to be a good title though, at least it says something about the process and techniques. ]

Indeed, the physical process of printing is integrated as part of the design process. Every piece exists of a layering of several black and white illustrations, through printing the colors and textures appear. By experimenting I studied how to use overprints, cut-outs and the color and texture of the paper in the design. I like to call myself a designer, it is less defined. See, it is not like I make drawings the whole day, I create images for a specific demand, a commission. All the elements I use are there for specific reasons, even if most of the times it’s by intuition. To others the work seems chaotic and filled with details, but to me everything fits in place. It often starts with things that are around me, thrown-away packaging from the market, Chinese candy wrappers... I take it home, make photographs of it or scan it and vectorize it and then build illustrations with it. The screens of mobile phones remind me of faces, I associate them with the faces on the Kwakuitl totem poles from the last century, that’s how it starts. My aim is of course to make the world more beautiful through my work, showing the dynamic and beauty and relationship between things. While my print work is seen as design, I feel more related to graphic art.

[ I know you studied cartography before you started graphic design, do you still benefit from it? I still read your illustrations like maps. ]

Yeah, the obsession for details and the clear line is still there, and yes I still feel the need to ‘map my world’, everything I register and see on the street, things I find in books, it needs to be in! Only in the last couple of years my background as a social geographer and my graphic art seems to merge and fall in its place. I am very interested in social studies with the emphasis on folk art and rituals. At the moment, I am fascinated by prints on Hawaiian shirts and native art from the Northwest coast of Alaska. I spend hours in the library as the eternal student--a graphic-anthropological sponge that squeezes itself now and then.

[ So your work is a reaction on how you view the world? ]

Always, But yeah it’s filtered with a technical graphic look, is it of value to me and can I use it?

[ Explain the Japanese influence in your work, how did that get in there. ]

I was at a conference ten years ago with Japanese poster designers, it hit me like a rock. I am still trying to comprehend and work that information. The exhibition ‘Surinomo’ (a non-commercial version on the more known ‘ukiyo-e’) at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam was sort of a ‘home-coming’. Everything I aimed for, mailing my small print work (making it personal, non-commercial, with an eye for detail, poetry and humor) I found and recognized in those historical works. And then Japan itself: as many, I had idealized that country, but was happy to find it much more earthy and realistic after my 2 travels there. And yes, the whole Zen bullshit was there too, but especially the mess and the chaos in Japan felt human and was a big attraction to me. The Netherlands is way too clean and organized! But next to the graphic, traditional Japanese art (beautiful wood cuts, kimono prints etc.), I was attracted to the modern culture of cuteness, manga and other crazy shit. It made me feel very happy seeing these weird young girls in crazy outfits and office-ladies with cute little dolls dangling from their cell phones. Even the packaging of products is playful, with little faces on it, everything made me smile. I wish European society was that cheerful.

[ How did they react to your work? ]

I got positive response, I think my use of color, textures and the detailing in my work is something they could relate to, and most of my designs do have that ‘kawaii’(cute) quality . I made a few new friends who are illustrators and animators, and I wish I could be there more, also because of the great food.

[ How was your CalArts experience? Did it remind you of your Rietveld-days? ]

CalArts is supposed to be the most free-minded and prestigious academy in the United States -just like the Rietveld in the Netherlands- but I was slightly disappointed. The graduation show we saw together was pretty bad, mostly because of the way the work was presented. But the group of students I worked with were so enthusiastic. Besides all of their obligations they did this extra workshop and printed posters. The debts they are in to be able to study there make them work really hard. You can’t compare that to Dutch students. In the Netherlands they are spoiled and feel they can waste their time with endless bullshit small-talk.

[ Did you feel related to their visual language, one that is influenced by and very connected with Ed Fella? ]

Well, in Ed Fella’s case that language feels completely natural. In it’s chaos it’s very well- considered. Imitating your hero’s while you study is not a bad thing, but you feel something is missing, it is just form. A lot of students are afraid to reveal themselves, to bring something that is very personal to their work. But then in the Netherlands the last generation of students spend most of their time doing pseudo-scientific ‘research’ with the aim of generating data that will be designed in the end. They hardly seems to have any enthusiasm for the ‘tools of the trade’.

[ Maybe what really is missing is ‘story-telling’ and I truly believe that comes with age. ]

A good point. But safety and the fear of making mistakes won’t get you further. I believe in quantity, a mass amount of work, failures and hits...

[ How about the Dutch design environment, do you feel comfortable as a ‘Dutch Design’er? ]

When I started studying graphic design, I was inspired by design companies like ‘Dietwee’, ‘Design Politie’ and individual designers like you and Max Kisman. I have huge respect for ‘Mevis & van Deursen’ and ‘Karel Martens’ (to name but a few), and I'm well aware of the fact that the economical and cultural environment in Holland provided a fertile breedinground for graphic design culture, but I've always felt like an outsider. I feel more related to the scene in Zurich, Switzerland (Martin Woodli, Electrosmog, Bastien Aubry) and Paris (Genevieve Gauckler, Antoine et Manuel, Mathias Schweizer): it’s more free, illustrative, manual, intuitive work in comparison to the always conceptual practice in the Netherlands. Even the street art scene in the US feels more related: Geoff McFetridge, Barry mcGee, Thomas Campbell. ‘Dutch Design’ means nothing to me, it has become an export slogan. I see myself as a ‘World Designer'.

[ You are going to be an artist in residence at the North Eastern University in Boston. What are your plans (by the way-great poster! - I see American influences) ]

It will be winter when I am there. Besides my obligation to teach I am looking forward to spending time in a warm cosy library. Searching for old wood-types, and historical sources about the development of the US, whale fishing on the east coast (Moby Dick) etc. What the outcome will be? I have no idea, yet. I am hoping for a new collaboration with my girlfriend photographer Coriette, who did the photography for the poster.

[ let’s talk about Chaumont, the poster festival in France ]

Bien sur.

[ You have used elements of ‘old’ print work before in your work but now it was historical material, Was that different? Did it feel like a huge responsibility? ]

All the elements were taken from posters out of the Dutailly collection: 5000 posters and other print work from the Fin de Siecle-period. I looked at all the posters on CD-ROM in three sessions. After printing out details I made hundreds of paper cuts to select useful elements, then vectorized them so I could make new compositions. Although I have huge respect for the collection I can still look at it as potential material for my own work. The collection is a treasure: even though their signature and design solutions seem obsolete or even clumsy nowadays, there is still that sense of drama, humor and a huge amount of energy that comes through. To be in France and being able to study this period was so inspiring to me. With my exhibition, the aim was to recognize that period by re-using elements and bringing it back to live in a re-mix.

[ That interesting mix of time is really becoming one of your trades, were you satisfied? Surely the time-pressure must have been an influencing factor. ]

Yes and no: I was very happy with the self-commisioned opportunity. But the balance of what I want to and what I am able to express is not yet optimal. My biggest struggle was the space itself (a historical heavily decorated room in the Town Hall of Chaumont). Was I able to make this work mine, using work of other artists? Maybe I should have done less... it was de first time I did an installation of this scale, I want more now!

[ Let’s discuss the ‘side steps’ your taking with your illustration work, it’s taking huge forms and proportions. You collaborate with many artists, how does that work? ]

For example, Ed Fella and I agreed on a ‘mutual re-mix’ of our work, I really admire him, and feel connected. He sent me a series of drawings, but I couldn’t do anything with them. Then I got his book ‘Letters on America’, took elements out of there and mixed it with my own images. That’s how ‘To oceans of Joy’ was created.

[ So it starts with exchanging imagery - it feels like a visual dialogue of some sorts. ]

More a virtual dialogue: his elements sparkle my imagination, I continue to work on them. He also uses things he finds randomly, but he is much looser and he completely relies on his handwriting. That is what I am still fighting at the moment, my perfectionism. I haven’t seen what he did with my work for Calarts magazine. I did simular projects with Kinya Hanada a.k.a Mumbleboy and Aki from Japan.

[ But with side steps to architecture- and now the fashion world, is the process the same? ]

The patterns on the front of the Tax building needed long studies on technical specifics, prints on a glass facade are way more complicated then printing a poster. It is a time-consuming project and the end of grid based geometric elements in my work. I wanna be freed from the grid, but it is very difficult to let it go. When Alexander van Slobbe (Dutch fashion designer, Orson & Bodil) contacted me he did make a remark that I asked him a lot of questions before going to work, I explained that I would not make loads of drawings, so he would be able to choose a few, every piece needed to be made with a specific aim. I am curious how he continues the drawings by adding embroidery.

[ Was there a theme for the illustrations on the dresses? ]

Yeah, towers. Or, they have turned into totems now: tall compositions, 1,5 meter high, printed on evening gowns. I am struggling now, wasting too much time finding out HOW to draw. Most of my work has been about the precise vector-line and combining elements out of other sources. I wish things came easier: quicker, more spontaneous, from my head directly on to paper, without all my rigid rules to find structure.

[ That struggle is never visual in your work, it does seem simple, direct and made with so much pleasure. ]

The audience doesn’t need to see that!

[ OK, a last question. Do people confuse you with your work? Your illustrations seem so naive and cute. ]

Oh, I have never been confronted with that. The way I see the world is definitely not as light, cute, cheerful and fluorescent bright as my work is. I am a serious young man and a real Dutch Calvinist on top of that. Besides it might be a good thing that my work doesn’t show what a rigid, self-righteous tyrant I really am, ha ha ha.

whl = Willem Henri Lucas, a Dutch graphic designer currently teaching (at UCLA) and working in the US.